Password II

[14gameshows]

How many on the board have ever seen the second version of Password which ran from 71-75 on the Alphabet Network? I've seen the rules to this game and it sounds very confusing.  Was this show self-contained or did it straddle to the next day?  

Also what is this theory about ABC erasing the Password tapes for the recording of Family Feud?  Were video tapes too expensive back then?  Did G-T think it wasn't worth saving, or ABC?  Was it by accident?  I think it's strange that we hear about game shows on NBC and ABC erased but other shows (i.e. variety, soaps, dramas, sitcoms, etc.) remain intact for some reason. Why is that?  

I will say on a side note that CBS looks to be the only network that valued their programming, look at network version of TJW, all thought it was lost until a staffer at WCBS stumbled across the masters in the basement.  First of all, why would those masters be at WCBS and not KCBS in LA?  Also wasn't Spin-Off w/ Jim Lange recently found too?

Thanks for the feedback any help from those in the biz may know the answers to this in full detail or even those who have connections may know what's up because I would like to know.

one4gameshows

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Dec 16 2004, 09:59 AM\']How many on the board have ever seen the second version of Password which ran from 71-75 on the Alphabet Network? I've seen the rules to this game and it sounds very confusing.  Was this show self-contained or did it straddle to the next day? 



I will say on a side note that CBS looks to be the only network that valued their programming, look at network version of TJW, all thought it was lost until a staffer at WCBS stumbled across the masters in the basement.  First of all, why would those masters be at WCBS and not KCBS in LA?  Also wasn't Spin-Off w/ Jim Lange recently found too?

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ABC Password did straddle when played with civilians, I don't think the ALl-stars format did.

Spin off was located in 2000 when WCBS did its basement cleaning which located most episodes of CBS Joker.

[cmjb13]

[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Dec 16 2004, 10:11 AM\']Spin off was located in 2000 when WCBS did its basement cleaning which located most episodes of CBS Joker.

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That's a damn big basement.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Dec 16 2004, 10:59 AM\']How many on the board have ever seen the second version of Password which ran from 71-75 on the Alphabet Network? I've seen the rules to this game and it sounds very confusing.  Was this show self-contained or did it straddle to the next day? 

Also what is this theory about ABC erasing the Password tapes for the recording of Family Feud?  Were video tapes too expensive back then?  Did G-T think it wasn't worth saving, or ABC?  Was it by accident?  I think it's strange that we hear about game shows on NBC and ABC erased but other shows (i.e. variety, soaps, dramas, sitcoms, etc.) remain intact for some reason. Why is that? [/quote]
If you're confused by Password rules from the 70s, you're probably reading the rules for either Password All-Stars or the brief civilian version that followed it for a few months in 1975.  The ABC version of Password that ran from 1971 to late 1974 was pretty straightforward.  And yes, many of us have seen it.

I'd never heard that ABC specifically took Password tapes and used them specifically for Family Feud, but in a general sense, yes, tape was very expensive (and very large) and few people saw any long-term value in keeping a lot of programming, especially daytime and late-night shows.  

Finally, you are wrong to think that game shows were the only type of programming that was mishandled.  Tons of stuff from the early decades of television are lost forever.  The reason WE hear about game shows being destroyed is that WE are game show fans.  I'm sure people who are interested in old soap operas, for example, have similar tales of woe.

[Ian Wallis]

Just adding to what Matt said, some the programming we know about that's been "lost" includes the first two Super Bowls, many early years of "Tonight Show", many daytime soaps/games, and many live productions from the '50s.

One show from the '50s that was thought "lost" was "Your Show of Shows".  If I've got the story right, Milton Berle was so upset he was going to sue, then the kinescopes were mysteriously "found".

It's a shame that so much from television's "golden age", and to some respect the "silver age" is gone forever, but who knew what the future would bring?

As for ABC "Password", I remember watching it every day when I came home for lunch.  I remember when Allen seemed excited about the change to "Password All Stars" and the new set.  It's too bad there isn't an episode from the '71-74 version available.  It's nice to have the '60s shows via GSN, but the early '70s version is the first one I remember.

[Jimmy Owen]

One thing that works in favor of any primetime programming still existing as well as the soaps is that whomever owned them wanted to keep them.  I would guess that Procter and Gamble probably has copies of everything they made and because they actually own the tapes, the ABC-owned soaps  (AMC, OLTL, GH) would stand a better chance to still exist.  Old game show tapes are not owned by the networks.  It would be up to G-T, H-Q and Bob Stewart to make sure they are kept.  It's sorta like borrowing a tape from a friend and when you try to give it back, they say "just keep it."  What would you do with a tape you'd never watch again and the original owner doesn't want it?  I'd tape over it, myself.

[14gameshows]

with that in mind, do you think that G-T maybe didn't see a value in Password II?  I would doubt that but you never know.  I thought of maybe the clearance issues with the  celebrities would be too much of a hassle and somehow those episodes are long gone.  But IMO, I think somewhere in a vault somewhere, someone has the masters to Password II, that's my theory.  I'm basing these answers from the fact that the Production company owns the tapes and not the network.  But then that raises the question of the "Big Erasure of 78" over on W. Alameda Avenue in Burbank, what all was erased.  Certainly it wasn't Hollywood Squares...and for years many thought it was erased but it was fully intact in some studio vault on the other side of town.  Imagine that.  Also IIRC, episodes of Dark Shadows (a big cult favorite, which was to be lost too, was found there as well)

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Dec 16 2004, 12:05 PM\']One show from the '50s that was thought "lost" was "Your Show of Shows".  If I've got the story right, Milton Berle was so upset he was going to sue, then the kinescopes were mysteriously "found".[/quote]
Right story, wrong show.  Uncle Miltie would only be intereted in Your Show of Shows to see what his rival Sid Caesar was up to.  It was Texaco Star Theatre than Berle hosted, and over which he threatened legal action with NBC.

[Robair]

[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Dec 16 2004, 10:11 AM\']ABC Password did straddle when played with civilians, I don't think the ALl-stars format did.

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Yes it did. The six celebrities played Monday through Thursday games (elimination buzz-ins, the "Big Game" and 20-20 Password, and when time expired on Thursday the four top players played Round Robin Classic Password with the 20-20 endgame on Friday to determine who would go on to the finals week.

[Jimmy Owen]

For the record, I greatly enjoyed PAS.  I first saw it during school vacation at Xmas 1974.  The same glorious week TBS and MM premiered.  Despite my having the measles that week, it was a great week of watching solid game shows from 10a-4:30p and choosing between the 18 great shows the networks offered.

[calliaume]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Dec 16 2004, 06:31 PM\']For the record, I greatly enjoyed PAS.  I first saw it during school vacation at Xmas 1974.  The same glorious week TBS and MM premiered.  Despite my having the measles that week, it was a great week of watching solid game shows from 10a-4:30p and choosing between the 18 great shows the networks offered.
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I only got to watch a few episodes, and while the set looked cool and the theme rocked, the actual game play was confusing, and to be honest, not thrilling.  Not surprisingly, there weren't really that many "all-stars" available to play, so that's how we wound up watching such celebs as Wilt Chamberlain and Ruta Lee have a go at it.

[Craig Karlberg]

I remember watching Password II every chance I could.  The orange set was alkright, but the synrthesized theme was like WOW!  Anyway, when ABC went to the All-Star fornat in 1974, the set changed to a blue background with mostly a white table with red on it.  I guess it could've been its way of reminding us that the Bicentenial Year(1976) is just around the corner(not in about another year but in a subtke way).

As far as preservations go, CBS was smart to have many of its shows preserved even when they're not on TVLand these days.  NBC clearly was the "Game Show Eraser" of the big 3 back then   I never would've thought storing old TJW episodes in a basement could lead to them collecting dust for nearly 30 years before Game Shiw Network acquired those shows(even if it only lasted a few weeks).

[Ian Wallis]

But IMO, I think somewhere in a vault somewhere, someone has the masters to Password II, that's my theory. I'm basing these answers from the fact that the Production company owns the tapes and not the network.

That may be the case, but if it was you'd think that GSN would have "found" them by now as they have rights to the Goodson-Todman shows.  There are a couple of other GT shows from around the same time period which are also missing - "Showoffs" and "The Better Sex".  GSN's aired only two episodes of "TBS", and absolutely none of "Showoffs".  Both of those were on ABC too.  It's likely that ABC was reusing tapes without Goodson's knowledge, because he had a good track record of keeping everything.

For that matter, an NBC show from the late '70s also seems to be MIA - "Mindreaders" - not that anyone's clamoring to see it, but if it exists and GSN has it, it seems odd they've never aired an episode of it.  There are theories that Goodson wanted the show erased because it's widely considered to be his weakest effort, but I don't buy it.

[Jimmy Owen]

The problem is even if the shows do exist, there is no viable audience to watch them.  The shows that do exist (Narz NYSI, CP, TT, Color BTC, TTTT, WML? and Password I, III, IV, etc) are collecting dust.  Whether erased or intact, we have no way to see them.

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Dec 17 2004, 08:57 AM\']

That may be the case, but if it was you'd think that GSN would have "found" them by now as they have rights to the Goodson-Todman shows.  There are a couple of other GT shows from around the same time period which are also missing - "Showoffs" and "The Better Sex". 

For that matter, an NBC show from the late '70s also seems to be MIA - "Mindreaders"

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There are two other GT shows from the 70s GSN hasn't aired any episodes of(besides Narz Concentration and syndie TPIR for reasons we already know): the 1977-78 weekly syndie version of Tattletales and the Summer 1976 CBS primetime run of IGAS